Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  150

  Definitely getting DF'ed now

  by notverylikely in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  came out as an apostate to the wife, came out about the depression, anger at being second fiddle in her life to 9 old guys in brooklyn, came out about having turned atheist, came out about the indiscrections, the tobacco use, everything.. fuck.

  me..

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  So do you think you'll attend the inevitable committee meeting, or will you let them DF you in absentia?
• 
  68

  Change in meeting attendance procedure - can't figure out why though

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  per a recent letter to elders:.

  beginning september 1, there will be a change to the way attendance is recorded at congregation meetings.. currently, attendance is counted at 4 of the 5 meeting (public talk, wt study, congregation "bible" study, and service meeting).. but after sept. 1, meeting attendance will only be taken at 2 of the meetings - during the "first quarter" of the wt study, and also at the cbs.. .

  no reason in given for the change in the letter, and i can't figure out why myself.. the numbers are not published anywhere - the only "official" record is a 6 month average the co puts together during his visit.. why request less information from the congregations, especially when it "costs" nothing to accumulate it in the first place?

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  So no more counting heads at the public talk? That's surprising, especially since that's typically the meeting with the highest attendance. I recall it being a point of pride for a congregation to have greater than 100% average attendance at the public talk.

  Anyway, I think the reason is simplification and lack of JW males who are "reaching out." Taking attendance is a Ministerial Servant's job. This is one more thing to take off their plate.
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  16

  need info on...

  by notverylikely in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am putting together some things to bring up when the elders talk me (i got ratted out for being apostate), so i need some info on the following.

  i am putting some of this together myself, you you folks here seem that have that stuff handy .... - list of babylonian kings on the cd (which articles) to show 587 is the date the list gets you to.

  - article that the wt wrote saying that if you study the bible on your own you will turn apostate (i seem to recall it, but not sure if it exists).

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Hey NVL, the first two posts in Palmtree's link contain the WT Literature cites for the 587/607 king list issue.

  In general, this site is a treasure trove of WT quotes: http://www.qwotes.info

  Here are some quotes that tell Witnesses not to study the Bible on their own or have their own ideas about the Bible:

  *** Watchtower 1967 June 1 p.338 Move Ahead with Jehovah's Organization ***

  12 How will we put these four things into effect? First, study: We may think of study as hard work, as involving heavy research. But in Jehovah's organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to do that very thing, to help you who do not have so much time for this, these preparing the good material in The Watchtower and other publications of the Society. But you do not study enough? Take this suggestion: Often the very best and most beneficial studying you do is that done when you read a new Watchtower or Awake! or a new book with the joy of getting the new truths and a fresh view.

  *** Watchtower August 1, 2001 p. 14, par. 8 ***

  First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he hascomplete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and"the faithful and discreet slave." By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided "at the proper time" — through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions — we can be sure that we maintain "oneness" with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge. — Matthew 24:45.

  *** Watchtower 2001 August 1 How to Make Your Advancement Manifest ***

  8 First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he hascomplete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and"the faithful and discreet slave."
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  34

  Question for Billy The Ex-Bethelite and others who had forgone college sometime ago.

  by garyneal in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was talking with my wife today about college and i asked her about why the society makes such a big deal about witnesses not going to college.

  in typical dub fashion, my wife tells me that they do not discourage college, but they do not encourage it either.

  instead, they encourage placing kingdom interests first.. now i told her about you (billy) and how you were at bethel and are now starting college at the age of 40 (i think that is correct).

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  It amazes me that JWs argue with a straight face that the WTS doesn't discourage higher education. While there was a period in the 1990s where the literature adopted a more liberal tone regarding college, since the early 2000s the pendulum has swung back in the anti-college direction.

  While the literature is full of Watchtower weasel words, the message is crystal clear to anyone who has been a Witness: "strong" JWs don't go to university, especially right after high school. Over the last several years, here are a few examples of the anti-college statements I have heard at assemblies and conventions. Note that I'm not even including the comments made by individual JWs in the congregation, which are often more pointed. Rather, these are all from assemblies and conventions, which are carefully scripted by the WTS.

  • A Bethel Speaker (non-GB) gave the example of a mentally ill person who shot himself in the head in an attempt at suicide. The bullet did not kill him, but rather destroyed the part of his brain that caused his mental illness. Thus, this individual was cured by a bullet to the head. Of course, this is a rare occurrence--usually a bullet to the head kills you. The speaker likened this to college: some JWs come through it unscathed, but it wrecks the "spirituality" of most. (this is the same illustration given by GB member Losch in the famous youtube video; perhaps this speaker got this illustration from Losch...or maybe they got it from the same source)
  • A District Overseer likened college to shark-infested waters. You can swim through them, and you may make it to the other side alive. But is it worth the risk?
  • A demonstration depicted a Witness high-school student speaking with her guidance counselor. The counselor urged the student to complete some college applications. The JW student explained that she wanted to become a full-time minister instead and used the old canard that a college education is no guarantee of a steady job.

  These are just three examples of the clear, pointed direction from the WTS. If you were at these assemblies and heard these parts, do you think you would have left with the impression that college is ok?
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  144

  The False Prophet Nathan?

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my mom is addicted to the wts.

  i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

  he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Hello Reniaa,

  Thanks for responding. But you did not tell provide the WTS position on who these "many false prophets" are? If you're saying that to be a false prophet you must perform "great signs and miracles," then who are the many that are false prophesying and performing great signs and miracles? (personally, I read Matt. 24:11, 24 to not require all false prophets to perform signs and miracles, but that's a matter of interpretation; unlike the WTS, I'm willing to admit that my reading isn't necessarily the only proper one).

  Feel free to respond to my thread on the subject: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/196460/1/According-to-the-WTS-who-are-fulfilling-Jesus-prediction-that-there-will-be-many-false-prophets-in-the-last-days
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  144

  The False Prophet Nathan?

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my mom is addicted to the wts.

  i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

  he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Note how the WTS followers concoct an incredibly narrow definition of "prophet" in an effort to absolve the WTS of any accountability for its indiscreet incorrect predictions.

  This WTS definition excuses hucksters like Hal Lindsey (Late Great Planet Earth) and Ed Whisenant (88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988) from being false prophets because those guys tie their predictions to Daniel, Revelation, etc. Heck, even David Koresh based his predictions on the Bible. But none of these clowns are false prophets in Watchtower-land!

  But this creates a problem. Jesus predicted that there would be "many false prophets" during The Last Days. If these really are The Last Days, then who are the "many false prophets" that Jesus predicted would be around? I posted a thread on this, but can't seem to get the WTS/JW take on the matter: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/196460/1/According-to-the-WTS-who-are-fulfilling-Jesus-prediction-that-there-will-be-many-false-prophets-in-the-last-days

  Is the WTS saying that Jesus was wrong?
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  20

  According to the WTS, who are fulfilling Jesus' prediction that there will be many false prophets in the last days?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the bible predicts that there will be many false prophets in the last days.

  here are some examples:.

  matthew 24:11: "many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Shameless bump.
• 
  36

  "Where else would we go?" - A common JW cliche'.

  by Crisis of Conscience in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how many times have you heard that before, whether in or out?

  in the past, i truly believed that.

  if i were to leave the "truth", where else would i go?.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  This is a common (and effective) thought-stopping technique. It kept me limping along in the JW/WT faith for a few too many years.

  One reason it works so well is that the WTS does a great job at poisoning the well regarding other religions. That's actually one of the things I liked best about being a JW--the ability to obliterate any other religion! (Trinity = BS; hell = BS; book of Mormon = absurd; etc.). So I viewed it as basically a choice between JW-ism and atheism. I wasn't ready to give up on the existence of the God of the Bible, so I stuck with JW-ism even though I was starting to see its theological and structural flaws.

  The problem with my reasoning as described above is that I was making a false choice--namely between JW-ism and other organized religions. I didn't consider the fact that perhaps there simply isn't a "true religion" at all. The WTS doesn't teach that there was an organization you had to join to be saved during the "wheat and weeds" period from the 2nd Century through CT Russell's time in the late 1800s (of course, this creates tension with the "faithful and discreet slave" doctrine, but that's for another thread).

  So, what makes today any different? Who are we to say that 2010 isn't just like 1210 or 1610 or 1710, and there's simply no "true organization"?

  Really then, the "where else can we go" argument hinges on today being The Last Days because otherwise it's still the time of the "wheat and the weeds." Ever since the New Testament was written, people have thought they were living in The Last Days and would not die. And they all had one thing in common: they were wrong and they died. Why are we so arrogant to think we're any different?

  (as a side note, I have issues with the Bible and Christianity in general, but wrote the above from a Biblical/Christian perspective)
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  28

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-18-10 WT Study (REACH OUT)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  comments.

  comments.

  you sow with a view to the spirit.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Thanks for the summary. As many of us know, the organization is bleeding elders and MS. In my old congregation, there were more former elders/MS than current. Most of these guys still believed (as far as I could tell), but were not interested in the politics, etc., associated with the position. Also, many in the under-40 crowd also appear to have little interest in serving. I don't blame them. It's a thankless job and a waste of time.

  For years, the Society has piled heavy loads on elders and servants. Now the chickens are coming home to roost.
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  20

  According to the WTS, who are fulfilling Jesus' prediction that there will be many false prophets in the last days?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the bible predicts that there will be many false prophets in the last days.

  here are some examples:.

  matthew 24:11: "many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I'm genuinely curious. Who are these many false prophets that Jesus said would be roaming around during The Last Days? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?